Di sini ada sedikit perkongsian, yg mungkin akan buat kita sumer berfikir..kalo ada sebarang komen, silalah meninggalkan jejak ye =) owh ye, sebelum tu, entry ni panjang la jugak..jadi,harap bersedia mental n fizikal la, sebab kang tetiba terstop tgh jalan lak..hehe..
Azryl Cute: laili!!!!!!
Azryl Cute: aku ade soalan penting
mujaheedah 90: kerel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mujaheedah 90: pe dia??
Azryl Cute: hahaha
Azryl Cute: erm
Azryl Cute: kelas philo aku
Azryl Cute: existence of God
mujaheedah 90: owh
mujaheedah 90: menariknye
Azryl Cute: yeap
Azryl Cute: ade argument kate evil does exist
Azryl Cute: so,God doesnt exist cos he doesnt eliminate evil
mujaheedah 90: owh
mujaheedah 90: so,ko kna watpe?
mujaheedah 90: counter back ke
Azryl Cute: so
Azryl Cute: does it mean God doesnt exist?
Azryl Cute: yeap
Azryl Cute: klu nak percaya percaya la
Azryl Cute: tapi klu kate God exist
Azryl Cute: so refute the statemnt
mujaheedah 90: em
mujaheedah 90: analogy senang je
mujaheedah 90: xtau la ko penah tau ke x
mujaheedah 90: sal tukang gunting rambut yg xpercaya kwujudan tuhan
mujaheedah 90: ko tau x?
Azryl Cute: xtau
mujaheedah 90: ok
mujaheedah 90: ada soang ni pegi gunting rambut.pastu tukang gunting ni kata..'tuhan ni tak wujud..cuba tgk skang,ramai orang dalam kesusahan..kalo tuhan tu wujud, kenapa dia biarkan je org dalam kesusahan?kenapa xtolong?kenapa biarkan je org lain buat zalim kt org lain?'
mujaheedah 90: orang tu diam je...dah habis gunting, dia blah ah
mujaheedah 90: pastu dia nampak sorang ni rambut panjang sangat..
mujaheedah 90: pastu dia masuk balik kedai tu, dia cakap, 'saya tak percaya tukang gunting rambut wujud. sebab kenapa masih ada lagi orang yg rambut panjang?'
mujaheedah 90: ko boleh relate x?
Azryl Cute: erm
Azryl Cute: x logic la
Azryl Cute: that is personal stand
Azryl Cute: ok,klu aku cakap aku x percaya ade doktor
Azryl Cute: sebb org mati jugak
Azryl Cute: ok
Azryl Cute: soalan,ko percaya x evil exists?
mujaheedah 90: the point here is..cuba ko relatekan balik ye, kenapa orang tu rambut panjang? sebab dia tak pegi jumpa tukang gunting tu untk gunting rambut. macam tuhan jugak, evil does exist, tapi, ia wujud for reason. if people think yg evil tu hnya mnyusahkan manusia untuk jadi baik, the point here is, kenapa tak 'jumpa' tuhan?
Azryl Cute: okay
Azryl Cute: so here is the argument come
Azryl Cute: mustahil untuk ko kate good exist
Azryl Cute: klu evil doesnt exist
Azryl Cute: sebab die opposite to each other?
Azryl Cute: kan?
Azryl Cute: klu evil x de,good pn x de
Azryl Cute: so,evil must exist so that we know good is
Azryl Cute: right?
mujaheedah 90: kejap,aku penin
mujaheedah 90: falsafah sgt
mujaheedah 90: haha
Azryl Cute: ok
Azryl Cute: camne ko tau itu baik
Azryl Cute: klu ko x faham ape i2 jahat
Azryl Cute: kan?
mujaheedah 90: ha,betul2
Azryl Cute: ok,that means there are Man in the world who are born to do evil
Azryl Cute: so,God appointed some of us to do that?
Azryl Cute: klu manusia x buat evil,camne kite nak tau
mujaheedah 90: em,betul jugak
mujaheedah 90: tapi,aku tak de hujah secara filosofikalnye..hujah scra islam aku ada..tpi, aku rasa xleh nk explain kowt coz hujah tu about faith bukan logik akal semata2
Azryl Cute: erm
Azryl Cute: tapi dahsyat wei budak2 sini
Azryl Cute: sebb diorg x pakai logik akal
Azryl Cute: tapi gune critical thinking yang dahsyat gile
Azryl Cute: aku cakap camnie
Azryl Cute: ok,klu ko x jumpe aku
Azryl Cute: ko kenal x aku?
mujaheedah 90: ok
mujaheedah 90: pastu?
Azryl Cute: so,ko x kenal aku
Azryl Cute: tapi x bermakna aku x wujud
mujaheedah 90: betul
Azryl Cute: klu ko x penah jumpe aku sampai bile2,ko x kan penah kenal aku
Azryl Cute: tapi x bermakna aku x wujud
mujaheedah 90: betul
Azryl Cute: so,sampai situ jea la
Azryl Cute: diorg plak bagi dahsyat punye
Azryl Cute: sampai diorg kate physical body x wujud
mujaheedah 90: uish
mujaheedah 90: gle dowh
mujaheedah 90: dhsyat nye
mujaheedah 90: diorang da argue pape x sal hujah ko tu?
mujaheedah 90: diorang nk kata ada tuhan ke x
Azryl Cute: erm
Azryl Cute: sometimes kate dye wujud
Azryl Cute: ade kate x wujud
mujaheedah 90: owh
Azryl Cute: tapi dahsyat la
Azryl Cute: memng arguments tahap dahsyat punye
mujaheedah 90: pe yg diorang argue
Azryl Cute: okay
Azryl Cute: can God creates wall he himself cannot surpass?
mujaheedah 90: em
mujaheedah 90: jap,kaitannye?
Azryl Cute: okay
Azryl Cute: kite believe God is the most powerful thing
Azryl Cute: boleh cipta ape saje
Azryl Cute: tapi can he creates he himself x boleh lepas?
mujaheedah 90: jap,aku still xfaham 'can he creates he himself x boleh lepas?'..mksudnye, dia sendiri xboleh lepas diri dia?
mujaheedah 90: gitu?
Azryl Cute: creates wall
Azryl Cute: dinding
mujaheedah 90: seriously aku xfaham ape kaitan dinding tu
mujaheedah 90:
Azryl Cute: okay
Azryl Cute: klu God tu ade kuasa yg hebat
Azryl Cute: so die boleh cipta ape saje
Azryl Cute: so,boleh x dye cipta dinding yang sangat tinggi sampai dye sendiri x boleh lepas
mujaheedah 90: ok
Azryl Cute: die boleh cipta ape saje
mujaheedah 90: owh
mujaheedah 90: ok3
mujaheedah 90: Dia is the most powerful, so, logik ke Dia yg sgt powerful,ada sumtin yg lbih hebat dari Dia
Azryl Cute: tapi dye boleh cipta ape saje
Azryl Cute: so,boleh x die cipta married bachelor?
mujaheedah 90: Dia boleh cipta apa sahaja..tapi, persoalannya, adakah akal manusia boleh terima kalo bnda tu wujud??
Azryl Cute: erm
Azryl Cute: how do we know?
Azryl Cute: tapi that is what we believe in
Azryl Cute: that he is all powerful
mujaheedah 90: ok
mujaheedah 90: kalo skang aku bagi kat ko buah durian yg ada kaki
Azryl Cute: so,bottom line he can creates anything
mujaheedah 90: ko boleh percaya x??
Azryl Cute: boleh
mujaheedah 90: atas dasar apa yg ko boleh prcaya?
Azryl Cute: cos that is God's creation
Azryl Cute: he can create anything
Azryl Cute: so,if that what we believe in,so we should believe that such thing could exist
mujaheedah 90: yeah..tp, ko cakap bnda tu tanpa bnda tu ada di depan mata kita..kalo betul2 durian tu ada kaki n ko boleh nampak, agak2 adakah sume org boleh percaya gitu je? aku rasa x sebab bnda tu brcanggah dengan pehaman mnusia yg durian tu xde kaki..so, Tuhan cipta sumtin yg sesuai dgn penerimaan akal mnusia. Dia dah byk create sumtin yg yg diluar pemahaman kita. tapi, bnda tu kita tak argue dengan logik akal. kita percaya dgn iman. contohnye, syurga dan neraka..god boleh cipta, tak mustahil pon
Azryl Cute: okay
Azryl Cute: see,what makes we believe in heaven and hell
Azryl Cute: he creates something that we can accept
mujaheedah 90: yeah
Azryl Cute: but he also create us with mind which can perceive more than that
Azryl Cute: thus,he creates everything on the basis of our logical reasoning
mujaheedah 90: yup
Azryl Cute: so,why cant we question the existence based on logical reasoning as well?
Azryl Cute: sorry aku tanye
Azryl Cute: nie philosphy
Azryl Cute: x de kaitan dgn pegangan aku
mujaheedah 90: ok3
mujaheedah 90: xpe
mujaheedah 90: ok, ko rasa adakah syurga dan neraka tu sumtin yg logik?
mujaheedah 90: mksud aku dari segi logik akalnye
Azryl Cute: x la
mujaheedah 90: ok
mujaheedah 90: tapi, kita masih percaya yg bnda tu wujud kan? bukan je muslim, christian pon prcaya sal tu
Azryl Cute: erm,okay
Azryl Cute: okay
Azryl Cute: if we can prove the God exist
Azryl Cute: thus we can believe in everything
mujaheedah 90: yeah
Azryl Cute: cos hell and heaven stand below Him
mujaheedah 90: yeah
Azryl Cute: therefore,he has to exist first than we can believe in hell and heaven
mujaheedah 90: yup..kalo nak ikut dalam islam pon, the first thing yg kita kna buat ialah mntapkan aqidah. kprcayaan kita pda tuhan, kenal tuha..lepas tu baru masuk perkara2 lain..baru kita xpertikaikan kenapa kita kna buat sumtin tu
mujaheedah 90: em
mujaheedah 90: dalam konteks yg ko bncangkan ni
mujaheedah 90: kna tgk dgn sape yg kita cakap, atheis ke free thinker ke
mujaheedah 90: kalo atheis, mmg kna bg yg logik akal hbis la
Azryl Cute: okay,try to imagine
Azryl Cute: nie first kelas aku nie
Azryl Cute: soalan die
Azryl Cute: sebb philosophy is questioning everything
mujaheedah 90: ok
Azryl Cute: so,sbg seorg muslim
Azryl Cute: so
Azryl Cute: klu ko x lahir sbg islam
Azryl Cute: adekah ko masih islam
Azryl Cute: and also,boleh x seorg islam
Azryl Cute: yang dilahirkan sbg islam
Azryl Cute: hadi atheis so that he can find God
Azryl Cute: maksud aku die dapat hidayah what and what not
mujaheedah 90: soalannye?
Azryl Cute: so,boleh x
Azryl Cute: org 2 masuk syurga
Azryl Cute: tapi die x masuk islam
Azryl Cute: tapi die islam mase lahir,tapi die x nak jadi muslim sebb nak cari God
mujaheedah 90: ooo
mujaheedah 90: ok
mujaheedah 90: aku jawab dari sudut islam la ek,sbb ni brkaitan dgn islam n muslim..em, penghujung hidup kita adalah kita d syurga atau neraka..mksdnye, kalo lahir2 dh islam, tp, xjamin lg dia msuk syurga, sbb blh jadi di akhir hdup dia, dia murtad. kalo org tu lahir kafir, xtentu lg dia masuk neraka sbb mgkin dia akan masuk islam..islam tu fully submission towards Allah. so, even dia tyme kcik islam, tp, dia tak tunduk n patuh...
mujaheedah 90: mksudnye, pghhujung hdup kita yg mnentukan kita msuk syrga atau neraka
Azryl Cute: so
Azryl Cute: erm
Azryl Cute: klu org 2 x masuk islam?
Azryl Cute: die dies as not a muslim
mujaheedah 90: genrally macam tu la..tapi, persoalan aqidah ni Allah je yg tahu..
Azryl Cute: so it is possible for him to get to heaven
Azryl Cute: eventhough he's not a muslim
Azryl Cute: ?
Azryl Cute: or he is automatically be in hell?
mujaheedah 90: siapa yg claim 'he's not muslim'?.. kita tak pernah tahu apa yg ada dlm hati manusia..kita nmpak secara luaran, tp, Allah tau apa yg ada di dalam..tp, kalo dia mmg terang2 kafir yg sungguh2 tu, mmg neraka la tmpat dia..
Azryl Cute: so,it's pointless to judge people?
Azryl Cute: macam mane nak kate die kafir sungguh2
Azryl Cute: macam kat sini diorg respect islam
Azryl Cute: just that they dont believe
Azryl Cute: can i say that they get to hell soon?
mujaheedah 90: nope
mujaheedah 90: coz kta tak tau future diorang
mujaheedah 90: ntah2 kta yg msuk neraka..naudzubillah
mujaheedah 90: kafir sungguh2 tu macam kafir harbi
mujaheedah 90: kafir yg terang2 memusuhi islam
mujaheedah 90: bunuh org islam
Azryl Cute: oh
Azryl Cute: okay2
Azryl Cute: so kite x boleh judge people
Azryl Cute: la?
mujaheedah 90: perlu ke untuk kita judge orang? bg aku, bnda tu mmg kadang2 kita ska buat..tp, once kita dh faham macam mana keadaan sbnrnye, it's pointless to judge people
mujaheedah 90: islam agama kasih sayang
Azryl Cute: okay
Azryl Cute: then get it
Azryl Cute: so,islam never says that you can judge people to enter hell?
Azryl Cute: okay,then i get you
Azryl Cute: but that is what muslims always say
Azryl Cute: and do
mujaheedah 90: kalo muslim dengan muslim yg laen, kita wajib ingtkan dia tntg neraka n syurga tu
mujaheedah 90: Allah kata, 'tiada paksaan dalam agama'..mksudnye, kita xboleh paksa org kafir masuk islam.tp, once dia dh msuk islam, dia kna paksa untuk obey ape yg Allah suh
Azryl Cute: okay
Azryl Cute: tapi how about those who were born to be msulims
Azryl Cute: ?
Azryl Cute: isnt that a force?
mujaheedah 90: ok..basically, sume org di lahirkan dlm keadaan fitrah,mksudnye, islam..tp, once dia dh kuar dari perut mak dia, dia akan ikut agama parents dia (ada hadis nabi tntg ni)..kalo cakap pasal force ni, tu yg aku kata, actually, we choose to be in this way..kalo ko tak nak islam tyme umur kau 12 thun, ko boleh je wat pape.tp, kau dh pilih jalan ko untuk trus brada dlm jalan ni..mksdnye, even kita dilahirkan sbg muslim, kita yg memilih untuk terus brada dalam jalan ni
Azryl Cute: haaa?
Azryl Cute: kite pilih mase 12 tahun?
mujaheedah 90: bukan
mujaheedah 90: aku bg contoh je
mujaheedah 90: kalo umur 12 thun tetiba ko rasa xnak jadi muslim
Azryl Cute: so
mujaheedah 90: ?
Azryl Cute: klu x nak jadi muslim?
Azryl Cute: so?
Azryl Cute: boleh la?
Azryl Cute: bukan ke murtad cam2?
mujaheedah 90: yela..memang la..mksudnye, nk kata, kalo ada org kata, x fair la org yg lahir as muslim, coz confirm msuk syurga.. sbb kita yg memilih untuk terus berada dalam jalan ni atau tak..
Azryl Cute: okay
Azryl Cute: no
Azryl Cute: as in klu org 2 dilahirkan sebagai muslim
Azryl Cute: tapi xnak jadi muslim
Azryl Cute: tapi dye kire murtd la
mujaheedah 90: yup
Azryl Cute: unfair for those who bukan islam
Azryl Cute: tapi diorg x pernah murtad
Azryl Cute: and diorg x rase ape2,sebb diorg bukan islam mase lahir
Azryl Cute: for those who were born as muslims,they dont ask for that
mujaheedah 90: ok..adakah ko pernah rasa apa yg diorang rasa n fikirkan??..Do they really tak mencari the 'truth'? even kita sebagai muslim pun sentiasa mncari supaya kitaa yakin dgn apa yg kita imani..kita sama je, fair..kita yg pilih jalan smada islam atau tak..macam aku kata tadi, org yg kafir tyme lahir, xsmstinye masuk neraka sbb mgkin dia akan msuk islam...
Azryl Cute: so
Azryl Cute: islam is not the ultimate point
Azryl Cute: people can be whatever they want
Azryl Cute: and yet they can be in the heavens?
Azryl Cute: is that what you are trying to say?
Azryl Cute: for those who find the truth
Azryl Cute: but they themselves are not sure is that really the truth?
Azryl Cute: so,islam is kinda a label
mujaheedah 90: the ultimate point is The God..tpi, persoalnnye, kita kena cari jalan yg betul yg datang dari Tuhan..
Azryl Cute: cos everyone is fair
Azryl Cute: only that you are labelled as muslims what and what not
Azryl Cute: and yeah,klu smapai tua
Azryl Cute: org 2 dapat hidayah
Azryl Cute: die x pernah solat and everything
Azryl Cute: so is that fair for him to be in heaven
Azryl Cute: ?
Azryl Cute: eh,sorry,seriously i have to go,for class
Azryl Cute: sorry la
Azryl Cute: aku prvoke sikit
mujaheedah 90: ok
mujaheedah 90: xpe
Azryl Cute: tapi nie for my own good
mujaheedah 90: aku xkisah pon
Azryl Cute: sorry tau
mujaheedah 90: xpe2 =)
Azryl Cute: aku bukan nak menafikan ape2
mujaheedah 90: aku ok je
mujaheedah 90: aku faham
Azryl Cute: cume aku pn nak tau jugak what i believe in
mujaheedah 90: yeah
Azryl Cute: okay,nice talking to you
mujaheedah 90: act, aku pun buat bnda yg sama kerel
mujaheedah 90: cuma kena rjin cari la
Azryl Cute: serious get to US as soon as possibl
Azryl Cute: sebb memng ko akan faham erti hidup dgn lebih mendalam
Azryl Cute: macam aku
Azryl Cute: ape tah lagi ko
mujaheedah 90: ok, then, doakan aku leh fly
Azryl Cute: mesti rase best
Azryl Cute: okay
Azryl Cute: weh,rindu plak korg semua
Azryl Cute: okay,wish me luck kay
mujaheedah 90: tula pasal
mujaheedah 90: ok then
Azryl Cute: good luck to you
Azryl Cute: kirim salam semua
mujaheedah 90: ko pon sama
mujaheedah 90: slmat mencari =)
mujaheedah 90: smga ko bertemu dgn apa yg ko cari
Azryl Cute: dan selamat beramal
Azryl Cute: erm
mujaheedah 90: yeah
Azryl Cute: okay